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Reviewer: OzTrekkie Signed [Report This]
Date: 04/12/2013 7:57 AM Title: Chapter 1

On the topic of Spock and Uhura in the reboot, this is my confusion over the alternative reality. I understand a different set of events created a different set of circumstances and thus an alternative reality. One of these differences is apparently having Spock be in a relationship with Uhura. But on Memory Alpha it uses the phrase "Spock maintained a relationship with Uhura". Abrams may have created the alternative reality to avoid continuity issues, but was he saying here that Spock already had a relationship with Uhura BEFORE the timelines split? And that the difference is that he MAINTAINS a relationship with Uhura in the reboot reality. So, basically he's saying that Spock and Uhura before the first season of TOS were in a relationship. That still seems like he's messing with the original timeline to me. What part of Uhura going up to Spock in The Man Trap and attempting, unsuccessfully, to flirt with him indicates that they were ever even that close? Not to mention she says something along the lines of "Kirk is the closest thing you have to a friend". Doesn't really seem like ex-girlfriend talk.

Reviewer: SORAL179 Signed [Report This]
Date: 11/12/2012 3:18 AM Title: Chapter 1

Reading this again fathers is flaw in argument. Picard has melded with Sarek and Sarek in a state where his mind is unstable. Given this it could be argued that he would have known  about Spock and Kirk. If we assume he attended Spock's second marriage it also seems likely he knew about the first. As for Gen script whatever the original script it was not Spock character enhancing hence Nimoy's choice not to do it and his comments that he would have given Shatner a better death scene. Only way to weave it is to consider Antonia part of the three years pre WoK where Jim had his crisis and left Spock And the fleet. 

Reviewer: SORAL179 Signed starstarstarstarstar [Report This]
Date: 01/15/2012 4:57 PM Title: Chapter 1

I think most of us realise that slash is a mix of possibilities relating to what was not said and personal fantasy. I am also of the view that much good fanfic uses K/S as a vehicle to weave other elements into. My view is that there Is no cannon other than personal cannon and this includes those writing for TOS and movies. The nearest to a consistent story are the first three movies where the writers and producers have stated were written as a three piece love story. Generations does not fit because it was never meant to link whether the original script had a link we don't know. As no leak of a slash version exists it is unlikely. If slash were cannon it could only be because those who acted and those who filmed put it there so the question of cannon is something only they could answer interestingly the backdrop DVD to ST2009 is very obviously anti slash. The only decision relevant is whether to create a personal slash or gen universe and thereafter choose whether you are open to multiple possibilities and freedom of choice for other fans.

Reviewer: Unicorn Signed [Report This]
Date: 04/15/2011 12:15 PM Title: Chapter 1

Well, of course I couldn't resist to have a look at your essay, though frankly I did not read it all because this whole "having to prove why your favourite pairing was meant so by the authors" has really started to get on my nerves (e.g. some fans are convinced that Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy are in love, or Julian and Miles from Deep Space Nine. The only commentary that comes to my mind is "Argh!" Kirk and Spock, being both unmarried and good friends, and least make some sense as lovers).

But I would like to add just one small suggestion. As you know, I like k/s stories - as long as they are well written and not total trash - and I have read a few before and after I wrote my essay. Now, here's my idea: while you read one, imagine one of them as a female and read it from that point of view, though it will probably spoil the story and take the interesting element from it. By reading them like this, k/s stories are quickly revealed for the female fantasies they truly are. There even are stories where one of them gets pregnant or is turned into a girl. It can't be clearer than that.

K/s stories, even if they are beautifully thought up and written, have little to do with fighting (a main element of all science fiction stories), some with adventure, and very, very much with relationships. Roddenberry, his authors and heirs may have been as ambiguous as you wish, but it is the ff authors who betray themselves with every story they write.

The comparison with Alexander and Hephaiston is one I honestly never really liked: Alexander was a ruthless invader and mass murderer, which assuredly doesn't come up to Kirk's arrogant, but kind-hearted character. Of Hephaiston's character, little is know but for his undying loyalty to Alexander. Alexander often stated himself that without him, Hephaiston would be nothing. This is certainly not a good parallel to the high-minded, independent Spock.

I never saw a problem with reading slash, or other kind of ffs, while still knowing and accepting, in the back of my mind, that the actual storyline is different. But that's something everyone must see for himself. Thanks for reading and being interested in my essay, anyway. :-)



Author's Response:

Reviewer: SlenderSail Signed starstarstarstarstar [Report This]
Date: 02/13/2011 9:37 AM Title: Chapter 1

Oh, beautiful essay. I really admire your "professionalism" as it were, the fact that you don't try to recruit anyone. More often than not, our invested emotions will get in the way of seeing another's differing point of view - but K/S and Star Trek TOS in general were more enlightened than that, so it would be quite ironic to create a unified "consensus" between fans who then flock together, for the purpose of blocking out whoever doesn't agree with them. It does happen on occasion, but I try to "observe" this in myself/ask why, rather than take it seriously. So it makes me so happy that there are others who are willing to cross this boundary. (I think the most surprising thing I have ever learned from it all, is that this primary impulse, whether we call it Love or God or whatever, is the SAME reason for both enlightenment and a nazi-type behaviour - I now understand it has to do with being made to feel special, and misinterpreting it as "more special than others" - if you see what I mean). 

A humorous side to this, which I see here, is that the two of you probably don't even disagree. The thing Unicorn writes at the end, "it sounds too good to be true", is a dead giveaway too. It makes me happy that she (?) can accept her limitations, even though it also makes me sad that they are there for now. There are many people who do not believe this kind of core love exists (its lack certainly is the reality for many, and I don't mean this in a condescending manner), but that doesn't mean it cannot be explored in a film - especially when said film openly deals with human aspirations, ideals, etc. It's funny that the most common argument isn't that "it's not canon", but that it cannot exist in real life - only on screen. 

This is where I come in, to say that I have a relationship with my soulmate, and he has always compared the two of us with these different stories. I don't know how "real" anyone's life can be said to be? There are many parallels I see in this discussion, and the discussions about Frodo/Sam in The Lord of the Rings, for example - 'a love one dare not name', totally ambiguous and open to interpretation, each person finds their own type of personality mirrored in it, we either become enlightened by talking about it, or we fight like crazy and make these little circles where "we know better", etc. And I too initially resisted the idea over there... went to great lengths to write they're just friends. This in itself points to something more. That's why my soulmate has sent me to explore these stories, and this is how I know they are true - in the sense of that truth which one accesses through one's own consciousness. It can happen, that neither of the two people involved ever come to accept the truth of the other's existence - it's very complicated. But obstacles and barriers have not been known to be indicative of us not being in love at any point... and like you say, whether we smooch in public or I'm always appearing single doesn't indicate our true intensity at ALL. I don't think we're open to that kind of judgment. Like someone wise once said, "you must see with your heart". 

Just a couple more comments for now - I'm not a "fan of slash" either, I think that was another important lesson for me, that I didn't come to K/S & others through my own SELFISH enjoyment - it always had to have a solid base in either canon, or something more elusive beyond canon, but either way, within some kind of philosophical "totality" or religious "God" which is also the origin of the whole "Romantic" treatment of love. When one says Romantic, one doesn't really refer to shallow gestures which are EXPECTED to elicit the correct response from the partner... Romantic refers to having one's entire self being seized by something from beyond oneself. Without that "component" I don't think it would feel the same way at all - and I would not see any point in exploring the fandom at all (if I was the only one controlling the subtext, abstracting the actual characters away). I believe that the problem with adding the Romantic component to how one sees K/S & others is the self-questioning about one's motives... i.e. "friendship is pure, love is tainted" - we get anxious about romantic love because we think it's fuelled by selfishness. But, as explained about one's self being seized, romantic love is actually the surrendering of one's ego.

As for Alexander and Hephaistion? A very moving story, a lot deeper than most realize, concerning the greatest challenge of all: overcoming one's image, when everyone relates to your legend not to who you really are. "You always held your head cocked, like that!" I can see why Kirk and Spock would fit that pattern. "How can you be a true friend to a god?"  

Reviewer: Tydomin Signed [Report This]
Date: 02/12/2011 9:16 PM Title: Chapter 1

Wow!  This was a interesting, well-argued essay.  I do agree with most of your points and interpretations, but that's by no means the only reason why I like it, so thank you for writing.

I'm really glad that slash fans and non slash fans alike can have these debates yet still cohabit in the same website.  I reckon there's something in particular about Star Trek fans that makes them really open minded and accepting of other people's points of view.

Your theory on 'Generations' was very clever - the idea of the Nexus being seen differently through Picard's POV was something I'd never considered before.  My theory was just that it would be too painful for Kirk to have a fake Spock in the Nexus, knowing (if only unconsciously) that he wasn't the real thing.  Yours is probably the better explanation...



Author's Response:

You know, that theory has occurred to me, too. I finally settled on the Picard's Bias thing because I hadn't heard that interpretation before and I thought it might add a new interpretation to the fandom. I think the former is totally valid, though, especially if you believe that Kirk may have conjured up a replica of Spock on the Shore Leave planet and had already learned that a 'fake' Spock isn't sufficient (which, again, I think is totally believable even if there is no *direct* evidence of that having happened ;) ).

But, yes, I love debating this with both K/Sers and anti-K/Sers alike. I like that both sides of the equation exist because I think it keeps things interesting.

Thanks for your review! I'm glad you liked the essay. =)

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