Date: 12/26/2015 4:56 PM Title: Chapter 1
I do not buy into this in the slightest. Every second of screen interaction shows that their activity is holistic and involves all aspects of their being. They spend their entire lives on the flirtation of the screen. Why would they do that if there was no sexual attraction involved? Ridiculous. In addition, they are T'hy'la. This tradition came to allow Vulcan to bind warriors on the battlefield and in order not to die when Pon Farr. By definition, sexual . There is no logic in your statement or evidence in the canon. Exactly the opposite. You Mary- Jane'd your own wedding on Spock and Kirk. Unforgivable! Spock and Kirk, by definition, erotic, sensual, sexual tension. Mort!
Date: 07/09/2015 9:36 AM Title: Chapter 1
This was really great. I like the spin on the traditional K/S. Thanks!
Thanks for taking the time to leave a review; I'm glad you enjoyed the story.
One of the great things about the ambiguity in TOS is that it can be interpreted in so many ways. I often find myself taking the less-traveled path, so I thought finding a middle ground in between "they're just friends" and "they're passionate lovers" might be interesting.
Date: 05/14/2015 12:31 PM Title: Chapter 1
Sorry that it took me some time to come back. I think that for me it would have been more clear to see the romantic aspects in the story itself. I am only one reader though and I don't expect writers to cater to individuals. :-) Not that I would fight you if you think the idea had merit and feel like expanding the story. And I appreciate your reply.
Date: 05/04/2015 7:04 PM Title: Chapter 1
I always enjoy how slash story mirrors author's own life. IDIC, this piece points a possible KS relationship.
In my culture(Chinese), physical contect is very rare. I do not hug my parents or grandma. The only humam being I hug or kiss is my husband. So I believe your boys might could get fun in their no-sex life.
Thanks for telling me about Chinese culture; that's very interesting. It's clear that much of Vulcan culture is based on Asian culture -- or based on Western ideas about Asian culture, which may or may not be true -- so hearing about that is doubly interesting.
Thanks for taking the time to leave a review; I really appreciate it.
Date: 04/12/2015 12:21 AM Title: Chapter 1
Plyushka's comment hit home for me: "what makes this a romantic relationship? I absolutely agree that love does not equal sex. I also see a great dedication to each other written in this story but what makes it different from friendship? I don't see that part." I also could not see what made it a romantic relationship. as opposed to a profound friendship.
C.S. Lewis' book The Four Loves had a powerful effect on my thinking about love, and I've always thought that the love between Kirk and Spock included all the dimensions of love identified by the Greeks and expounded upon by Lewis: affection (storge), brotherly love (philia), romantic love (eros) and charity (agape). The authors of The Colours of Love added pragmatic love (pragma), playful love (ludus) and obsessive love (mania) to the mix, which might also apply to K&S, at least they certainly have in fan fiction.
But I haven't found anything in the literature about the different aspects of love that distinguished between the romantic and the erotic, being being "in love," on the one hand and wanting to join sexually with the beloved, on the other. They are usually classified as aspects of "eros." And as I said earlier, I am finding it extremely difficult to imagine a love between Kirk and Spock that is romantic but not erotic. It seems so fragmented to me that I find it hard to think about how it would play out in practice.
I appreciated your response to Plyushka, "I was envisioning them hugging, holding hands, and sleeping in one another's arms every night." Well, that is helpful, but it doesn't solve my difficulty. Kirk tried to explain his feelings by the analogy of how he loved to hug his beloved dog, but I don't think he was in love with his dog. My children have slept in my arms, and certainly deep love was involved, but it was familial affection, not being "in love."
I am sorry if my earlier review offended you -- I noticed that you responded to every comment posted before and after my review, but not to mine -- and if this comment only compounds the offense, I am doubly sorry. I know that you have "been there," and I have not. But I can only report my honest reaction. I hope you will take it as a well-deserved compliment that your story has made your readers think so deeply.
No, I wasn't offended by your comment at all! (The only comment I've found offensive so far is Nejasna's.) Your comment was the longest, and I was saving it to reply to until I had the time and attention to give you the long, thoughful reply your comment deserved, rather than just dashing something off. (I'm still waiting to reply to it, for that reason; I have a chronic illness that greatly limits me, and I can't always do things that deserve to be done.)
There's a lot more I'd like to say, but I'm not able to say it right now. I'm replying right away, though, so that you know I've found your comments interesting and am merely waiting until I can give you the thoughtful reply you deserve.
Date: 04/10/2015 6:42 PM Title: Chapter 1
Here is the question for me... what makes this a romantic relationship? I absolutely agree that love does not equal sex. I also see a great dedication to each other written in this story but what makes it different from friendship? I don't see that part.
I do get asexual relationships but I also think they have romance in them, like, I don't know... sonnets by the candel light or strolls on the beach holding hands and even desire of physical closeness that does not extend to actual sexual touching. But there is a degree of physical attraction anyway. So what makes this relationship a romantic relationship?
I didn't think I needed to belabor the romantic aspects of their relationship, since I figured anyone who was reading TOS fanfic was already convinced of that part. :-)
I mention it in the story in several places, including the fact that they're the most important people in each other's lives and also in this section: "For safety, stability, and comfort, I had Spock. For knowing and being known, for cherishing and being cherished, for filling up my heart, I had Spock." But I can expand on that aspect of things if you think it's needed.
I was envisioning them hugging, holding hands, and sleeping in one another's arms every night. But since the story starts off with Kirk's unknown listener asking if he's in love with Spock, I figure that listener -- and any readers who are reading K/S -- already have that part in their minds, so I focused on the other parts.
Date: 04/10/2015 1:11 PM Title: Chapter 1
A very common idea among heterosexual people and a very common interpretation of characters whose sexuaity has not been established as heterosexual in canon.
Unfortunately it is not just in fiction that we get erased and explained-away as "just really good firends who are platoncally in love with one another", we get erased in our daily lives both while we live and after we die. Our lives and relationships are only valid and representation worthy if straight people can pretend we are not sexual with one another, because "bringing sex into it" (what they really mean by that is bringing anything that isn't strictly heterosexual) "ruins" ot "cheapens" our relationships.
Hopefully some time in the future we will no longer have to deal with this.
If you'd read the author's notes, you'd have seen that I am a lesbian. It's BECAUSE I'm queer that I know that sexual orientation isn't changeable and doesn't vanish just because someone thinks it's inconvenient.
Date: 04/10/2015 2:11 AM Title: Chapter 1
This is a fascinating story that I enjoyed and re-read and thought about a lot. My involvement in K/S fandom dates practically from the Time of the Beginning -- a LONG time ago -- which means that I lived through the period in K/S fandom in which it was pretty much a given that Kirk, at least, was so thoroughly heterosexual that falling in love with Spock was a huge shock to him. More often than not, in those stories, the sexual relationship was forced on the couple by pon farr or some other extraordinary event. In many stories, the erotic dimension of the relationship was not altogether believable, at least not to me. So I appreciated the realism of this "what if" story -- what if Kirk and Spock really were close to zero on the Kinsey scale? (I don't know if the Kinsey scale is still considered validated or supported by research, but we used to talk about it a lot in the old days.) I also appreciate that this story comes from a very authentic place and that it captures the truth of some devoted couples' lives.
And, as others have commented, Kirk's "voice" was very true to the character. That added immensely to the believability of the story.
The scenes in the story that I found the most compelling were the failed attempts at sex, and Kirk's complete lack of sexual desire for Spock's body. I chuckled at the affectionate play on recurrent tropes in fan fiction such as the effect on Kirk of Spock's bending over his viewer, and Spock's chest. Well done!
The take on Kolinahr and its relation to Spock's need for Kirk in pon farr was interesting and original, but ... I don't know. Perhaps I am just such a doctrinaire K/S fan that I cannot overcome my conviction that ST:TMP was about Spock's running from a sexual relationship or at least a powerful sexual attraction to Kirk. It seems that your version of the Kolinahr story hinges on their not fully recognizing what Kolinahr was about, and I don't think I am persuaded by that. I assume that after the events of ST:TMP, Spock continued to experience pon farr, so, did Kirk continue to serve as his partner? And how did this affect their relationship? It seems to me that this would be an important part of their story.
I suspect that if I had read this story back in the day when K/S was still being hotly debated among fans, I might have found it quite persuasive. And as I say, I do not pretend that I can separate my convictions as a devout K/S fan from the "reality," whatever that may be, of what we see on the screen. But after a lot of thought and effort to try to imagine what it is like to be "in love" with someone and yet have no sexual attraction to that person, I found that I could not. I could not imagine such an extreme "dissociation of the sensibilities," in the words of T.S. Eliot. I don't see that dissociation in the interactions of Kirk and Spock in TOS, where it all began. They seem drawn to each other in a way that is holistic, that engages the whole person, including physical attraction. And how can one account for the flirting, if no physical attraction is involved?
So even if I'm not buying, I thank you immensely for making me think long and hard about these issues.
Date: 04/09/2015 9:30 PM Title: Chapter 1
Thanks, I loved this story. Great sex does not always imply deep love, why do we often think that strong emotions caused by someone should necessarily have sexual undertones? I have myself experienced both platonic love and passion with not as much emotional depth. So, taking into account what we know about K/S, this version of events is really interesting and original.
Thanks! I think people bring their assumptions to the stories they write, and I've been surprised at how many people seem to assume that sexual orientation isn't real, and any two people who love each other can have great sex together.
Of course, I hope that in whatever reality Kirk and Spock exist in, they ARE having great sex, but I'm not sure that they actually can, you know? TOS Kirk seems pretty heterosexual to me. What IS clear to me is the love, so I wrote a story in which their love was what really mattered, and they got their sex elsewhere. It'll never be the mainstream view of K/S, and I'm fine with that, but I hoped to provide an alternate perspective that might be interesting or even thought-provoking.
Date: 04/09/2015 7:05 PM Title: Chapter 1
I really enjoyed this, but you are right it is bittersweet. In the end, they are happy, they have each other. You managed to come full circle with this piece. Kolinahr, V'ger, and finally back together.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your review; I'm glad you enjoyed the story!
Date: 04/09/2015 6:41 PM Title: Chapter 1
It's interesting, isn't it, that our culture keeps telling us that love = sex, and that if you love someone deeply, unconditionally, and erotically, then it must evince itself in sexual intimacy. And yet it's been quite normal in history, up until the age of movies (I guess) and romance novels for people to love one another and be life partners without being sexual partners. Why do we shy away from that? Is it about the glorification (or demeaning, depending on how you look at it) of sex? Or is it heteronormitivity, which tells us that attraction = reproduction?
I don't have any answers to these questions. Thank you for writing a thought-provoking piece (although, if it were true, it would cause us to need to reevaluate most of our K/S fandom fantasies... ;-) ).
Thanks for your interesting review! Yes, our culture does seem to have a bit of a blind spot about any loves that aren't sexual. Tell people that you're quitting your job and moving 3000 miles away to be with your husband, and they'll think that's normal. Tell them you're quitting your job and moving 3000 miles away to be with your sisiter or your best friend, and they'll wonder why anyone would DO that. So we do seem to have a perception that only sexual love is "real," which is strange.
I certainly don't expect the fandom to adopt this view of our boys! I'm happy for people to keep writing them as hot for each other; I certainly hope that in whatever reality Kirk and Spock exist in, they actually are hot for each other. I just think it's sort of strange that so many folks assume that sexual orientation doesn't really matter, and anyone can have good sex with someone if they love that person enough.
Date: 04/09/2015 12:35 PM Title: Chapter 1
I love it, so out of the choir, a different take on the deep relationship of the two. And Kirk's mindvoice feels so right. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! Yes, it's certainly a non-traditional take on the matter, and yet, I think it's definintely a possible one. But our boys would still find a way to make things work -- Kirk never gives up, and Spock's too smart; between them, they'd find a way.
I was astonished to find myself writing Kirk's mindvoice -- I almost always write Spock -- so I'm relieved to hear that it felt right to you. Thanks so much for reviewing.
Date: 04/09/2015 9:31 AM Title: Chapter 1
Very daring and non-traditional look at K/S; there is something glorious here, and yet bittersweet. It reminds me of an article I read once, don't know when or where, that a producer or writer associated with ST once said about K and S "being the love of each other's lives" but in a platonic way. At least the love is a constant in any Reality.
"Bittersweet" is exactly the right word. Yes, the story is certainly a non-traditional take on the matter, but I know from sad experience that sexual orientation follows the body and not the heart. Our boys could find themselves in exactly this position ... and yet, if they did, I think they would still be okay. I think they would need to find sex somewhere, but at the end of the day, the love would be the important thing.
Thanks for reading and for commenting.